well, since duffy apparently can't remmeber that midnight is when BOTH hands are on the 12, i didn't get to drop this in before the time ran out. so here we go . . .


well, i guess i'll take a chunk of the last few minutes left and thank duffy for letting it run this long, even though i can imagine that, at times, he wished he hadn't. i'd really rather this whole debate had gone down with no mention of race, age or retirement plans, seeing as how none are truly relevant to what my main questions were about, but i think that for the most part, it stayed on-course, and a lot of good points were brought up my many folks. and some of them were even addressed.

i also really do wish that mike would have had a discussion with me, seeing as he obviously feels like the taggers aren't in the wrong. i really wanted to hear the opinions of someone who felt that polarly opposite to my own views. even the others debating the validity of the tagging never once said that it was right for shop-keeps like me to be tagged. but it seemed like mr. carney might've had some logic that would show me how some people might feel that way. but unfortunately, he seemed to just wanted to stir up shit and not really debate or argue (in the proper monty-python "that was never 5 minutes right then" kind of way) his points on a real level. and that was too bad.

i'm glad that many people were able to maybe see that even the silliest little tagging really does hurt somebody, somewhere. i'm glad that a handful of people got to read the views of somebody in my shoes. at 37, i'm still a punk kid. and punk kids do have a lot in common with crowds like the PBJ kids, and there IS a lot of middle-ground between their camps and mine. i don't hate graffiti, i don't think that the voices of the youth should be silenced. i just don't see how they refuse to admit that tagging something like my shop, or the hi-5, or a mexican diner isn't bad for their own community. there IS room for all of us, if we can find that common ground and work together in it to make all of our voices heard, and make all of our communities better.

i was pleased to see so many people chime in on both sides of the deabte, and to share their histories. it makes the board feel more alive when we know where each other are coming from.

i was thrilled that tony came to visit me today at the store. sure, it was inspired by the weirdness of this thread, but surprisingly, the tagging thing was what we really talked about the least. it was more of a nod of respect for each other on that tip, and then we moved on. even though the time we've spent together in our lives totals up to less than a day, i've always felt like we "got" each other pretty well. cheers to you, envelope . . .

and to wes, i'd really like to thank you for trying to show me how those on the other side think, and why sometimes it seems like they don't think. i'm pretty sure neither one of us feels even a little differently than we did, but the fact that it went on for this long, and never resorted to name calling and shit like that shows that you were really trying to make your voice and your points heard. i'm glad that if i had to argue, about something i feel passionately about, for 3 days, i'm glad it was someone i'm kinda friends with. it kept it more civil, more respectful, and more on target (mostly!)
if only all the posts about all this had the same respect level that the ones between you and i had . . .

and lastly, i'd really like to apologize to anyone who really does get bothered by the word "fuck" . . . 'cuz i can't think of a single time in my "online" life that i've said it or one of it's variations more frequently. so, sorry about that. it's the word i use the most in the real world, probably, and it's easy to get pretty arsed-up over my life's work.

eh, fuck it, you understand . . .

that's a good roundup there, TJ. I'd say that most of the "anti-" crowd is not as anti- as some would assume, but that it has its limits as far as place, message, and other criteria that pretty much all art depends on.

If you don't agree with the idea of ownership or private property, I will assume you either live in a self-sufficient shack, on a commune, or run an open-door homeless shelter then, right?

What's that? You actually make money and live in society and lock your door? Oh. My bad. I forgot you were talking out of your ass.

i intially started to figure out what kinda pager i was gonna buy...

them i stumbled across this, and hoped we could all bond by being happy that lee ving has a myspace page...

suicidal tendancies has a myspace too.

I use

"all I wanted was a pepsi"

in one of my raps