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 Post subject: inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:30 pm 
Snarf

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:49 pm
Posts: 15
Is this an issue worth addressing?

Using images of marginalized groups on album art and show flyers should not become the next post-controversial, post-racist, post-post-modern thing for white dudes to do. Actually let me be a little bit more specific. Please don't get the idea that black people is a rad image to put on show flyers. I really hate this, it fucking creeps me out.

I'm speaking specifically to the current Unholy Two (I love you guys) flyer you can see now at Bourbon Street and the fat black chick porn on the wall next to the Isaac Hayes cross at another certain place where I had the misfortune of attending a show in the spring. But if you have had your glasses on for the past two years, you know exactly what I am talking about.

In brief, I am 100% unwilling to have a drunken conversation about this. As a community it would be awesome if we can agree that it is unnecessary and not be a bunch of slummy, middle-class pushovers about it.

To the perpetrators, I want to say that otherwise I support you and like you. All I am asking is that occasionally you use fucking basic intelligence before you let your post-hipster, faux-populist rich kid nihilism get completely fucking out of control. Hello.

I'm fucking over it.


Last edited by wimptemp on Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:08 pm 
Mechagodzilla

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:08 pm
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there is a fineline.

as far as 3cb........
meta4ce listens to burzum.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:15 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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I thought once Unholy Two had that Coleman's head flyer they passed the line of no return...... t

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:40 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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Wesley Flexner wrote:
there is a fineline.


David St. Hubbins wrote:
It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:26 pm 
Snarf

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:49 pm
Posts: 15
Wesley Flexner wrote:
there is a fineline.


You know, I definitely agree with you about that.

But I think we all know what the line really is versus what we have allowed to cross it because we are so aggressively trying to stay abreast on what is fucking sweet. I'm saying that this should not be happening, especially not without any sort of comprehensive discourse or root understanding of why, although in irony, it is fucked.

I'm off to work now.


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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:02 pm 
wimptemp wrote:
basic intelligence


Nail on head. Don't be stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:11 pm 
Mothra
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Lesko is my dude, but I thought the same thing when i saw that flyer.

However, this is nothing i would have a problem talking to him about when i see him out.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:41 pm 
King Ghidorah
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Lutzko will never read this without his name in the subject line. It's like yr screaming at a wall.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:49 pm 
Godzilla
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it's been a long time since i've made any of the types of flyers that i used to do, but back-in-the-proverbial-day, most of my fliers had vintage pix of hot chicks on 'em. race never came into the thinking, as long as the chick was hot.

i was too busy objectifyin' to be thinkin' all racist and stuff.

black, white, yellow, brown? that doesn't matter.
hot is hot!

doesn't that count?

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:03 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Image

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:54 pm 
King Ghidorah
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I am more bummed on shitty flyer design, than subject matter... this does not mean that i am indifferent to racism, i just take subject matter on flyers as people trying to be shocking, or show someone a striking powerfull image.. i have used an image of neonazis getting their heads shaved on a flyer, that is not because i am pro-neonazi, but because i found the image to be one of the most terrifying images i had ever seen, perhaps because i knew the context, but mainly because of the look in the one guys eye, pure hate. what would you say if the image on the unholy two flyer turned out to be from a photo from a civil rights protester being attacked, but was cropped to only show the raw feeling of what was happening?

is there a difference between putting an unknown person of an ethnic background different than your own on a flyer and putting a celebrity or minor celebrity of a different ethnic background than yours on a flyer? would it ok for me to put bonecrusher on a flyer, but not ok to put a photo of someone that is not marginally famous? is there a difference between putting a group of young asian girls on a flyer and putting a group of iraqi soldier (in terms of weather or not it is racist)? is that not what you mean? is it only when white people put images of black people on flyers?(yeah i know i am being un PC, but i mean nothing racist by either the term "white" or "black") what about putting an image of a dead cop? does it have different meaning if the cop is white than if the cop is black?

I am not trying at all to be a smart ass, and i am just trying to have a dialog about this, and if i missed the point and took it somewhere that is offensive to the people posing the question, i did not intend that.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:03 pm 
King Ghidorah
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is this flyer offensive?

http://www.martinthings.com/b&w/santonio.jpg

sorry to large to embed.

how about this one?

http://www.martinthings.com/b&w/fuckcops...jpg

????

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:28 pm 
King Ghidorah
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BastardSuperstar wrote:
stuff

'Cause nothing says "rock" like objectifying and/or denigrating women.




You heard me.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:30 pm 
Godzilla
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Jackson wrote:
BastardSuperstar wrote:
stuff

'Cause nothing says "rock" like objectifying and/or denigrating women.




You heard me.



yeah, the tj of his late 30's is far different than the tj of his mid-20's.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:33 pm 
Mechagodzilla

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:08 pm
Posts: 1502
did anyone notice the pitchfork tattoo on the woman's arm on ludsko's flyer?

given the timing of the flyer..the same weekend as pitchfork music festival
i thought he was referancing pitchfork's appropriation of street culture for so-called hipppsters.

it said to me "people are all thinking about how girltalk flipped hustlin by rick ross while wearing american apperral when they should be celebrating the existence of ludsko."


i completely understand the disdain for fetishizing and casting black people as a living id.

but sometimes context and commentary exist beyond simply trying to cross a line.

in the past two years i have requested that people not put my name on flyers that could be construed as festishizing black people unless there is a valid meaning for that element of the recipe beyond reefer madness.

i prefer fetishing national tragedies and terrorist acts these days.

in general i don't find it edgy or effective to play racial games.
i think dave chappelle, sarah silverman and the boondocks have exhausted this ground.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:56 pm 
King Ghidorah
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Fetishing? That's an interesting and elaborate construct.

Wesley Flexner wrote:
but sometimes context and commentary exist beyond simply trying to cross a line.

And when is that exactly?

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:05 pm 
Mechagodzilla

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:08 pm
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Jackson wrote:
Fetishing? That's an interesting and elaborate construct.

Wesley Flexner wrote:
but sometimes context and commentary exist beyond simply trying to cross a line.

And when is that exactly?


perception,intuition and insight.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:06 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 11:21 am
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Jackson wrote:
BastardSuperstar wrote:
stuff

'Cause nothing says "rock" like objectifying and/or denigrating women.


You heard me.


Image

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:32 am 
Jet Jaguar
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Re: Patsy's flyer
Isn't that fetishizing a movie that fetishizes fetishizing?
Can't we all just get along and fetishize Harley-Davidson, like all the real cool people?


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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:29 am 
Godzilla
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Sullen V. Hement wrote:
Re: Patsy's flyer
Isn't that fetishizing a movie that fetishizes fetishizing?
Can't we all just get along and fetishize Harley-Davidson, like all the real cool people?


Image
"i've got a harley-davidson. does that turn you on? harley-davidson?"

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:23 am 
Godzilla
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I think you'd all be much happier if you came up with a spiritual guide for your band as a mascot for your flyers, like, say, a cosmic, smiling tooth. It's worth the peace of mind.

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:33 am 
Godzilla
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thefiercelime wrote:
I think you'd all be much happier if you came up with a spiritual guide for your band as a mascot for your flyers, like, say, a cosmic, smiling tooth. It's worth the peace of mind.



I thought your mascot was a fall down drunk?

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:06 am 
Mechagodzilla
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#2 Carney is pretty much right on but let's sum it up...Who is allowed to use what images of what ethnic groups?

#1 Define semi-racist or delete the thread (racism either is or isn't, amiright?)


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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:31 am 
Godzilla
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redrabbit wrote:
thefiercelime wrote:
I think you'd all be much happier if you came up with a spiritual guide for your band as a mascot for your flyers, like, say, a cosmic, smiling tooth. It's worth the peace of mind.



I thought your mascot was a fall down drunk?

It's all in the perception - in reality the cosmic smiling tooth (CST®) IS a fall down drunk, but only on the high holidays.

As for appropriating terrorist attacks, do giant animals count? This was from late 2001 or early 2002 when it was just tasteless.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: semi-racist show flyers/inappropriate ethnic appropriation
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:34 am 
Jet Jaguar
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Ramirez wrote:
#2 Carney is pretty much right on but let's sum it up...Who is allowed to use what images of what ethnic groups?

#1 Define semi-racist or delete the thread (racism either is or isn't, amiright?)


seriously. now we're going to start making up rules?

let's take this to the dorms and join the other freshmen agonizing over this stuff..

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